ARIZONA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Forty-seventh Legislature – Second Regular Session
Minutes of Meeting
House Hearing Room 4 -- 9:00 a.m.
Chairman Farnsworth called the meeting to order at 9:02 a.m. and attendance was noted by the secretary.
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Mr. Barnes |
Mr. Miranda B |
Mr. Smith, Vice-Chairman |
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Mr. Downing |
Mr. Quelland |
Mr. Farnsworth, Chairman |
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Mr. Gallardo |
Mr. Yarbrough |
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Mr. Paton (exc) |
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H.B. 2013 – DP (8-0-0-1) H.B. 2074 – DP (4-3-1-1) H.B. 2133 – DP (7-0-0-2) |
H.B. 2137 – DP (7-0-0-2) H.B. 2176 – DP (7-0-0-2) |
Ralene Whitmer, Assistant Majority Research Analyst
Representative Chuck Gray, sponsor
Karen Osborne, Elections Director, Maricopa County
Jen Forst, Majority Intern
Eric Edwards, Executive Director, Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police
Brian Wilcox, Lieutenant, Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Katy Proctor, Majority Research Analyst
Representative John Nelson, sponsor
Leila Gholam, Legislative Liaison, Arizona Supreme Court
Names of persons who did not speak (pages 4 and 7)
Chairman Farnsworth introduced staff:
Joanne Bell, Committee Secretary
Katy Proctor, Majority Research Analyst
Ralene Whitmer, Assistant Research Analyst
Jen Forst, Majority Intern
David Gass, Council to the Democratic Caucus
Bianca Stoll, Democratic Law Intern
CONSIDERATION OF BILLS:
H.B. 2013, voter registration rolls; juror qualifications – DO PASS
Vice-Chairman Smith moved that H.B. 2013 do pass.
Ralene Whitmer, Assistant Majority Research Analyst, explained that H.B. 2013 allows jurors to be placed on the inactive voter list if the juror’s mail is undeliverable (Attachment 1). The bill stipulates that for any juror whose mail is returned as undeliverable, the Jury Commissioner shall notify the County Recorder. The County Recorder is required to send a follow-up notice to the juror. The bill directs the County Recorder to transfer the juror to the inactive voter list when the notification process is complete.
Representative Chuck Gray, sponsor, advised the intent of this legislation is to expose people who have illegally registered to vote at a certain address and who show up to vote giving that address.
Mr. Gallardo said this mailing is intended to catch those individuals who may not be living at the address or have fraudulently filled out a voter registration form. He asked whether this situation would be covered and can be prevented from happening under Proposition 200, the new voter identification provisions. Representative Gray agreed that is the intent of the voter I.D., and said this bill would shorten the process. He contended that if a person does not get mail at his old address, he should not be voting in that district.
Mr. Gallardo mentioned there are a lot of problems on how to implement the voter I.D. process. Representative Gray said that if another law covers this subject, there is nothing wrong to ensure that the people who are voting are properly registered.
Mr. Miranda asked if a person will be allowed to vote when he shows up to vote after being placed on the inactive rolls. Representative Gray said he will defer that question to the election officials in attendance.
Mr. Miranda queried the procedure when the first mailing is returned undeliverable but the second mailing comes back from the same address with the registration form. Representative Gray said he assumes it will be accepted if it is filled out and returned.
Mr. Barnes pointed out that the post office should have a forwarding address for the person. Representative Gray said that may not necessarily be true.
Mr. Barnes questioned the process if the elections office finds two different addresses and both are voting. Representative Gray responded that he is not aware of what the elections office does; however, he thinks that information would be given to the proper authorities and the person would be prosecuted for voting twice. Mr. Barnes mentioned that Mr. Gallardo pointed out that cannot happen under the statewide data base. Mr. Barnes said his main concern is what happens after.
Karen Osborne, Elections Director, Maricopa County, testified in support of H.B. 2013. She advised that all 15 County Recorders support this bill and that Maricopa County has been doing this for ten years. In response to questions previously asked, she answered that two notices are sent; if the individual votes inactive, he goes back on the rolls; and if the person votes twice in an election, he will be prosecuted. She explained the process. She said all mailings are sent first class. The federal government requires a follow-up letter so two letters are on file before the person is placed on inactive status. Inactive does not mean a person cannot vote; it means the address is inactive. About ten years ago, the Recorder’s Office had the Elections Office partner with the Jury Commissioner. When the Jury Commission gets mail returned undeliverable, it is not a forwarding issue, it is a case where the address is no longer forwardable, i.e., the forwarding order has expired. The Jury Commission notifies the Elections Office and a second mailing is sent. If no response is received, the individual is placed on inactive status. The goal is to keep the voting rolls as clean as possible. Any duplicates are then taken care of.
Since this has been done for ten years, Mr. Gallardo questioned the need for the bill. Ms. Osborne reiterated that Maricopa County has done this for ten years but the other counties have not. Mr. Gallardo asked whether other counties can do this now. Ms. Osborne replied in the affirmative, however, the rest of the counties have not instituted procedures on this.
In response to Mr. Downing, Ms. Osborne said it is difficult to estimate the savings using this process. She thinks Maricopa County probably saves about $10,000 to $15,000 a year.
Mr. Miranda asked what qualifies as undeliverable. Ms. Osborne replied the mail is no longer forwardable because the forwarding order has expired. The post office will only forward mail for one year.
Mr. Miranda observed that some people do not want to serve on a jury and return the mail with a notation that the person being called for jury duty is no longer at that address. Ms. Osborne agreed that some people will do a lot to get out of jury duty. If it is found that a person lies on his jury form, the presiding judge is notified and will take action. She advised that the Attorney General has several people under indictment for lying on their jury form.
Mr. Miranda queried whether this proposal was transmitted to the U.S. Civil Rights Commission. Ms. Osborne replied that it was approved by the Department of Justice.
In reply to Mr. Barnes, Ms. Osborne related that in the last ten years two people have tried to vote fraudulently. She said these are serious crimes; they are felonies and are placed on their records.
Mr. Barnes wondered about counterfeit voting documentation. He asked whether there has been any exposure of anyone making a business out of providing counterfeit documents. Ms. Osborne said nothing has been brought to her attention on that issue.
Mr. Miranda asked whether a review of the voter registration rolls has shown the number of people with criminal records or those who are not eligible to vote because of non-citizenship. Ms. Osborne answered the voter file has not been scanned to find out whether or not a person is a citizen. The non-citizen issue comes from the Jury Commission from the responses made on the jury form. The information is then passed on to the County Attorney. Ten indictments have been made for citizenship issues and 12 for felony records.
Persons in support of H.B. 2013 who did not speak:
Brian Ginter, representing himself.
Helen Purcell, County Recorder, Arizona County Recorder’s Association
Question was called for on Vice-Chairman Smith’s motion that H.B. 2013 do pass. The motion carried by a roll call vote of 8-0-0-1 (Attachment 2).
H.B. 2074, concealed weapons; training requirement; renewal – DO PASS
Vice-Chairman Smith moved that H.B. 2074 do pass.
Jen Forst, Majority Intern, stated that H.B. 2074 eliminates the refresher firearms training requirement for the renewal of a permit to carry a concealed weapon (CCW) (Attachment 3).
Mr. Quelland asked how long the two-hour refresher course has been a requirement. Ms. Forst answered that the training requirement was four hours last year and this year it is two hours.
Mr. Gallardo advised that the requirement was changed from four to two hours last year, and this bill attempts to remove the two-hour training. Ms. Forst agreed.
Representative Chuck Gray, sponsor, related that last year, this committee removed the training requirement; however, a Member of the Senate insisted on maintaining the two-year refresher course. He revealed there is no longer any opposition to this proposal from that Member.
Mr. Downing pointed out that law enforcement opposes this bill. If this proposal passes, there will be changes in the carry concealed weapons (CCW) laws, and he wondered how people who carry concealed will know about the changes. He believes this will be counter-productive to public safety. Representative Gray replied this provision will eliminate one of the requirements for renewal and people will know of changes when they go through the renewal process. Individuals can also access the Department of Public Safety (DPS) website which lists the requirements in law.
Eric Edwards, Executive Director, Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police, testified in opposition to H.B. 2074. The Association believes remedial training is critical to anyone the State authorizes to possess a firearm. Last year the Legislature changed the training requirement from four to two hours. He thinks it would be wise to wait and see the effect of that change to see if it shows any negative impact. He maintained that training is beneficial. In addition he said there will be a huge debate this Session on changing the CASTLE doctrine, Florida’s 2005 legislation on the right of a person to use self-defense in their home or their occupied vehicle. He advised part of the remedial training covers the use of force. In addition, he informed Members that handgun skills and the ability to hit a target degrade very quickly. Some individuals do not touch their firearms for long periods of time, and this is a concern to law enforcement. He asked Members to keep the minimum two-hour training requirement so people can be updated on the law and can practice their marksmanship.
Mr. Gallardo asked how people would be updated on new laws and new requirements in terms of gun ownership if this bill passes. Mr. Edwards answered the DPS website posts information. He stated that the purpose of remedial training is to help keep gun owners current on the law.
In response to Mr. Gallardo, Mr. Edwards thinks at least a year or two is necessary to see the impact of the change from four to two hours of training.
Chairman Farnsworth stated that changes in laws and training are not exclusive to CCWs. Remedial training and being advised of changes in gun laws are not required for other people who possess a weapon. Mr. Edwards agreed that Arizona law allows people to openly carry a weapon without any training, qualifications or remedial certifications. He again stated that in order for the State to authorize a person to carry a concealed firearm, there should be training and requirements.
Chairman Farnsworth questioned the need for more training for CCWs. Mr. Edwards replied that if a person carries openly, people can see the weapon and make a meaningful choice whether to remove themselves from the premises. If a person carries concealed, an individual does not have that choice. He stated his preference that everyone who posses a firearm be required to have firearms training.
In reply to Chairman Farnsworth about how the average citizen can find out about changes in any law, Mr. Edwards said that information can be obtained through the media. He agreed it is incumbent on a person to find out if the law changes. He reiterated that he is opposed to the reduction in training hours. He maintained that the more training people have, the better, because they are better able to hit their target.
Mr. Downing asked the Chairman if his position is that no training is preferable. Chairman Farnsworth stated that is not his suggestion. To get a CCW, people have to be trained, gain knowledge and show proficiency. He suggested that two hours of remedial training will not necessarily make a person a good shot.
Mr. Miranda believes it is important to receive additional training to at least cover the highlights of changes that have occurred. Mr. Edwards said that is part of the issue as well as knowledge about the use of force and when it is authorized. Mr. Miranda commented that if a person has a weapon in clear sight, it obviously gives notice to others.
Mr. Gallardo said he believes there should be tougher gun laws. In addition, requirements and training should be applied to everyone, not just to CCWs. He thinks the Chairman brought up some valid points in terms of gun ownership and that Arizona laws should be expanded even further. He noted that Arizona has some of the most liberal gun laws in the country and they should be toughened up and applied across the board for everyone who wants to carry a deadly weapon.
Brian Wilcox, Lieutenant, Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS), spoke in opposition to H.B. 2074, the elimination of the two-hour refresher training. He stated that training covers firearms safety use, safety at home, how best to carry a weapon outside the home, legal aspects, updates on laws, mental condition, different scenarios that may arise, weapon malfunctions, etc. Many people with very little knowledge of guns and their use get a CCW permit for protection of themselves and their family. Training gives them confidence that if they need to use their weapon, they will know how. He advised that Arizona’s CCW training provided by the Department is a nationally recognized model. The Department believes it should stay in effect.
Chairman Farnsworth queried whether a person is prevented from getting this kind of instruction elsewhere. Lieutenant Wilcox answered that gun clubs offer training.
Question was called for on Vice-Chairman Smith’s motion that H.B. 2074 do pass. The motion carried by a roll call vote of 4-3-1-1 (Attachment 4).
H.B. 2133, lengthy trial fund; juror compensation – DO PASS
Vice-Chairman Smith moved that H.B. 2133 do pass.
Katy Proctor, Majority Research Analyst, advised that H.B. 2133 allows jurors to be eligible for earnings replacement monies from the Lengthy Trial Fund after serving on a jury for more than five days (Attachment 5). The bill reduces the number of days a juror must serve before being eligible for earnings replacement from more than ten days to more than five days.
Representative John Nelson, sponsor, made himself available for questions.
Leila Gholam, Legislative Liaison, Arizona Supreme Court, advised that both judges and juries like this system. It encourages individuals to serve on a jury who otherwise would be unable to serve because of the time and financial burden. With this proposal, the Fund can pay up to $300 per day if an individual did not get reimbursement from his employer. Last year the Fund started paying after the tenth day. Today the Fund is able to support jurors starting on the sixth day.
Question was called for on Vice-Chairman Smith’s motion that H.B. 2133 do pass. The motion carried by a roll call vote of 7-0-0-2 (Attachment 6).
H.B. 2137, prior convictions and admissions; sentencing – DO PASS
Vice-Chairman Smith moved that H.B. 2137 do pass.
Katy Proctor, Majority Research Analyst, explained that H.B. 2137 provides that the court, instead of the jury, shall determine the aggravating circumstances of whether a person has had a prior conviction of a felony within the past ten years preceding the new offense (Attachment 7). The bill provides that in non-capital cases, an aggravated sentence may only be imposed if the jury finds aggravating factors, the defendant admits to aggravating factors or the court finds the defendant was previously guilty of a felony.
Representative John Nelson, sponsor, said he is available for questions.
Mr. Barnes asked the purpose of the bill. He said it seems it would seldom happen. Representative Nelson answered that the Supreme Court has indicated there are certain guidelines to be followed in sentencing. This provision brings Arizona’s statutes in conformance with the Supreme Court guidelines.
Chairman Farnsworth referenced the 2004 Blakely v. Washington case and said that most of the issues were addressed last year. This is clean-up legislation.
Persons in support of H.B. 2137 who did not speak:
Sheryl Rabin, Office of the Attorney General
Edwin Cook, Executive Director, Arizona Prosecuting Attorneys’ Advisory Council (APAAC)
Question was called for on Vice-Chairman Smith’s motion that H.B. 2137 do pass. The motion carried by a roll call vote of 7-0-0-2 (Attachment 8).
H.B. 2176, continuation; election officer certification committee – DO PASS
Vice-Chairman Smith moved that H.B. 2176 do pass.
Ralene Whitmer, Assistant Majority Research Analyst, stated that H.B. 2176 continues the Election Officer Education, Training and Certification Advisory Committee for ten years (Attachment 9).
Vice-Chairman Smith advised that the Judiciary Committee of Reference (COR) met on December 13, 2005 and recommended that the Committee be continued for ten years.
Karen Osborne, Elections Director, Maricopa County, stated strong support for H.B. 2176. She asserted that the Committee is very necessary. Continuing education is necessary so the State as a whole follows the same procedures.
Person in support of H.B. 2176 who did not speak:
Helen Purcell, County Recorder, Arizona County Recorder’s Association
Question was called for on Vice-Chairman Smith’s motion that H.B. 2176 do pass. The motion carried by a roll call vote of 7-0-0-2 (Attachment 10).
Without objection, the meeting adjourned at 10:27 a.m.
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Joanne Bell, Committee Secretary
December 23, 2016
(Original minutes, attachments and tape on file in the Chief Clerk’s Office)
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COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY
6
January 12, 2006
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