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ARIZONA STATE LEGISLATURE
Forty-ninth Legislature – First Regular Session
AD HOC COMMITTEE ON MINING REGULATIONS
Minutes of Interim Meeting
Monday, December 7, 2009
House Hearing Room 1 -- 9:00 a.m.
Co-Chairman Jones called the meeting to order at 9:34 a.m. and attendance was noted by the secretary.
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Senator Sylvia Allen, Co-Chairman |
Representative Russ Jones, Co-Chairman |
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Senator John Nelson |
Representative Franklin Pratt |
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Chad Fretz |
Tom Lowry |
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Ben Grumbles |
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Herb Guenther |
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Joe Hart |
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Kris Hefton |
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Senator Amanda Aguirre |
Representative Barbara McGuire |
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Maria Baier |
Yates Hudson |
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Will Humble |
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Dr. Madan Singh |
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Bill Staudenmaier |
Co-Chairman Jones welcomed everyone, informing them that this is the third meeting of this Ad Hoc Committee: the first invited presentations from the agencies and the second from the stakeholders. He stressed that the goals of the Committee include streamlining mining regulations, eliminating duplicate efforts, and investing in the business environment of the mining industry. The meeting today will encourage the agencies to respond to the suggestions and ideas presented earlier, and then discuss the structure of the Mining Department and the Mining Museum and possible legislation.
Agencies’ Responses to Committee’s Previous Recommendations
Mr. Hart, Arizona Mine Inspector, stressed that what Arizona needs right now is jobs and that the state must get mining back to being productive. He added that the universities cannot pull the state out of this job crisis, nor can the real estate or construction industries. He informed the Committee that mining has new technology and that uranium mining is promising: “new money comes out of the ground.”
Mr. Guenther, Arizona Department of Water Resources, stated that mining plays an important role in the state’s economy and supports the construction industry. He stated that water plays a complementary role to mining regulations, but water has its own mandatory regulations. He informed the Members that it is a real challenge to keep the infrastructure in place to preserve Arizona water aquifers. He reminded the Committee that the Colorado River water is shared with six other states and is over-appropriated and that there are climate change implications in water management, which is difficult already.
Discussion ensued about opportunities for Arizona Department of Water Resources and Arizona Department of Environmental Quality to streamline their permitting processes. The Members discussed future water supplies and forest management to reduce water consumption.
Mr. Guenther described the following approaches to water management:
Co-Chairman Jones suspended the normal protocol of going through the Chair in order to encourage easy discussion.
Mr. Grumbles, Arizona Department of Environmental Quality, concurred that forest health and clean water go hand-in-hand and spoke of the importance of ensuring balance in the context of a watershed approach. He referenced the Governor’s executive order on forest health and water sustainability.
He stated that most of his time has been spent on mining issues such as streamlining opportunities and going to general permits. He is working on the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) stormwater program and with Dennison Mines on uranium mining. He added that waste is a key issue to his Department.
Patrick Cunningham, Deputy Director, Arizona Department of Environmental Quality (ADEQ), addressed the Committee to discuss the permitting process. He indicated that he is working on permits which will deal with air and water simultaneously and which will allow some construction, such as infrastructure, to begin before the permitting process is complete. He stated that surface water and groundwater require separate permits.
Discussion ensued on using the rule-making process to provide clarity, rather than the legislative statute process. Licensing timeframes and staffing constraints which could affect timely responses were discussed. Mr. Cunningham discussed the use of outside consultants to write permits for ADEQ.
Henry Darwin, Director of Water Quality, Arizona Department of Environmental Quality (ADEQ), addressed the Committee to discuss the fee structure and ways to make the program self-sufficient. He stated that the Department is moving towards general permits and is proposing an increase in fees.
In response to questions, he stated that he uses the “first in, first out” approach to permit requests, so he cannot give preferential treatment unless a company uses the “accelerated permit program.”
Mr. Darwin stated that he wants the fees to be as fair as possible and he wants to ensure that everyone knows the “fee for service” structure. Co-Chairman Jones stated that the Department of Agriculture has had this for years and inquired what changes ADEQ anticipates to ensure fairness. Mr. Darwin indicated that he believes that the stakeholder process will ensure fairness to the regulated community because it is open to all to have a voice at the table.
Co-Chairman Jones concurred, stating that the key is to have stakeholder input via a public/private partnership.
Rusty Bowers, Arizona Rock Products Association (ARPA), explained how a state-certified engineer is hired to file a permit request to the state agency, which then has another state-certified engineer review and rewrite the permit request. He asked why two engineers are used instead of one, proposing that one credentialed engineer who is held accountable should be able to complete the task. Discussion ensued on the pros and cons of this approach.
Discussion Concerning the Structure and Organization of the Mining Department and the Mining Museum (State of Arizona Department of Mines and Mineral Resources - DMMR)
Co-Chairman Jones stated that the
Museum is a state treasure containing the history of Arizona mining, but 60
percent of the Museum’s annual budget is spent on the rent of the facility.
The Museum has a statutory mandate, but budget cuts are threatening its ability
to fulfill this mandate. The Museum has no real income, so this is not a fee
for service situation.
Co-Chairman Jones asked if there is another model which can be used in this
instance.
Mr. Hart stressed the importance of maintaining the status quo. The Members discussed rental rates as well as the possibility of combining the Arizona Geological Survey and DMMR. Mr. Hefton stated he is not in favor of this as the two agencies do not share the same focus.
Co-Chairman Jones stated that since DMMR has a statutory requirement to maintain the museum this topic will require further discussion.
Public Testimony
Sydney Hay, Arizona Mining Association, introduced Ms. Cindy Chandley, who will provide information on water policy issues.
Cindy Chandley, Freeport McMoRan Copper Gold, informed the Members that there are inconsistencies in water issues and in the groundwater code and provided a handout that outlined recommendations for regulations and legislation (Attachment 1).
George Tsiolis, ASARCO LLC, addressed the Committee in opposition to a recent proposal by ADEQ that the area of Hayden, Arizona be designated as in “nonattainment of the new ambient air quality standard for lead”. He made a recommendation for legislation to deal with the timeframes allowed for public comment.
Isaac Nelson, Element Exploration LLC, testified in support of mining and exploration in Arizona. He stressed the importance of small exploration companies and lauded the DMMR as a beacon to these small companies and the only agency that helps them get things done.
Mr. Hefton commented that small exploration companies are very important, but now are nervous about new investment, and this affects their ability to bring revenue and jobs to the state.
Fred Brost, Mining Engineer, stated that he works with medium and small mining companies. He informed the Committee that Arizona, so rich in mineral resources, must be known as a mining-friendly state. He added that California and New Mexico have such difficult permit processes that he will not work in those states. He complimented the Arizona agencies and stated his opposition to any state regulations that are more stringent than federal regulations. He urged the Members to consider different standards for small mining companies, which do not have the pollution potential of the large operations.
Mr. Lowry concurred, stating that the permitting process is so complicated now, requiring seven copies of each drawing, for instance, that small companies may not have resources to comply.
Mr. Cunningham responded to Mr. Tsiolis’ testimony, stating that he finds it a good idea to have a more careful process. Co-Chairman Jones concurred.
Discussion and Recommendations by the Committee
Co-Chairman Jones stated that the Committee now has a great deal of information to review and he thinks it best to take some time to collate all of it, then to meet one more time to formulate the Committee’s recommendations.
Ralene Whitmer, House Research Analyst, clarified that the Committee cannot confer by email but must schedule a meeting in order to comply with the open meeting laws. She stated that she would compile and distribute the materials in a couple of days.
Co-Chairman Jones moved to compile and study the materials and to reconvene. The motion carried.
Co-Chairman Jones announced that the Committee will meet on Tuesday, January 5, 2010.
Without objection, the meeting adjourned at 12:13 p.m.
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Jane Dooley, Committee Secretary
December 11, 2009
(Original minutes, attachments and audio on file in the Office of the Chief Clerk; video archives available at http://www.azleg.gov)
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AD HOC COMMITTEE ON MINING REGULATIONS
December 7, 2009
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