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ARIZONA STATE LEGISLATURE
Forty-seventh Legislature – Second Regular Session
AD HOC COMMITTEE ON BUSINESS OWNERS
AND WORK SITE ENFORCEMENT
Minutes of Meeting
House Hearing Room 4 -- 9:30 a.m.
Chairman Jim Weiers called the meeting to order at 9:35 a.m. and roll call was taken by the secretary.
Mr. Weiers, Chairman Mitch Laird
Richard Bark Doug Quelland
Richard Bibee Pat Quinn
Jolynn Clarke Armando Rios
Ed Cook Todd Sanders
Tim Dunn
Members Absent
Jason LeVecke Ken Rosevear
Randall Nye Sarah Strunk
OPENING REMARKS OF THE CHAIRMAN
Chairman Weiers thanked everyone for attending the meeting and directed the Members’ attention to the Final Report (Attachment 1).
COMMITTEE DISCUSSION/MOTION TO RECOMMEND ADOPTION OF THE FINAL REPORT AND SUBMIT TO MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE
Rene Guillen, Majority Research Analyst, reviewed the Final Report (Attachment 1).
Chairman Weiers thanked Mr. Guillen for doing a good job and expressed appreciation to the Members for serving on the Committee. He indicated that not everyone will agree on everything, but many interesting issues surfaced during Committee discussions. Legislators are now working on “clean up” language, so the Committee has been very effective.
Mr. Rios thanked Chairman Weiers for assembling the Committee. He said regardless of what transpired, the Committee recommendations are better than having nothing. Many businesses in southern Arizona were very nervous, but are now comfortable that they have a voice at the table in Phoenix. He added that the Pima County Attorney, Barbara LaWall, was very helpful in disseminating information and working with the business community in Tucson.
Mr. Sanders expressed gratitude to Chairman Weiers for forming the Committee and Mr. Guillen for his work. He remarked that the Greater Phoenix Chamber of Commerce believes this issue should be handled legislatively, and therefore, chose not to participate in the lawsuit in July 2007 or any alternative initiative. He pointed out that one issue not discussed, which will be raised during Session, is how to protect legal Arizona workers who will be out of jobs if a business is shut down.
Mr. Cook added his thanks, noting that it has been a pleasure to work with the other Members.
Mr. Bark commented that he
appreciates the Chairman having this forum and thanked
Mr. Guillen and Steve Moortel, Policy Advisor to the Majority, for their work. He
said the
Final Report will provide background material for legislators to review and
make judgments on various bills that are introduced.
Chairman Weiers said the Final Report also provides reasoning. It is amazing how many ideas arose from the “perfect” bill that was passed. Frustration expressed about the bill was that it was done in haste, but it was actually started in the House quite a while ago, but placed on the back burner. What is scary is a potential initiative, which would be impossible to change. Many dire predictions were made about what would happen if HB 2779 passed, but three weeks into January 2008, those things have not happened, and there is now an opportunity to make an even better bill. There is a court challenge, which is the process, so what happens remains to be seen. He said he was impressed when the judge asked the county attorneys to hold off until the first week of March 2008 before doing anything. Many complaints were originally anticipated, but the Attorney General’s Office only received two complaints as of a week ago.
Mr. Laird said he is grateful to have
served on the Committee and applauded Staff’s compilation of the Executive
Summary and other portions of the Final Report. He recommended that the
Committee adopt the Final Report and recommended changes that he submitted on
December 7, 2007.
Mr. Cook related that he has no problem with voting to adopt the Final Report, but will have to abstain from voting on any legislative recommendations.
Mr. Laird moved that the Committee adopt the Final Report (Attachment 1). The motion carried.
Mr. Laird moved that the Committee adopt language submitted on December 7, 2007.
Chairman Weiers indicated to Mr. Quinn that omnibus and piecemeal legislation will be introduced.
Mr. Quelland remarked that while previously serving in the Legislature, the Governor and Legislature rarely agreed; however, they are in agreement that people are crossing the border because jobs are available, which needs to be addressed. Some good ideas were gleaned from the Committee and he is glad there will be legislation. He thanked the Staff, Chairman and other Members for their work.
Chairman Weiers commented that when drafting “clean up” language, legislators normally do not have a roadmap as a starting point, which is what the Final Report provides.
Mr. Bark moved a substitute motion that the Committee subdivide the proposed language, have each section explained and adopt each section separately. The motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen reviewed the
definition of employee, employer and independent contractor
(Attachment 1, Second Tab - Submission by Committee member Mitch Laird on
12/07/07
[13-pages]).
Mr. Laird explained that the purpose is to clarify that an employer is liable for his employees, but not for employees of an independent contractor the employer hires.
Mr. Bark commented that the language does not conform to federal law because there is no provision stating that if an employer knowingly hires an independent contractor who is an illegal alien, the employer does not receive full exemption.
Mr. Bark moved to conform the current employer sanction law to incorporate the concepts reflected in federal law regarding independent contractors.
Mr. Bark moved a substitute motion that the Committee adopt the language reviewed by Mr. Guillen and add the provision in federal law stating that an employer cannot avoid liability by hiring an independent contractor the employer knows is an illegal alien.
Chairman Weiers indicated that Staff will add the provision to the Final Report before final distribution.
Mr. Quelland mentioned that when he needs extra help in his business, he contracts for temporary manpower, but many competitors send a truck to Home Depot and pick up workers who are paid cash for the day. He questioned how that scenario works out with this language.
Chairman Weiers opined that the workers would not be independent contractors, but employees.
Mr. Sanders remarked that there will probably be many bills dealing with the “underground economy” this Session.
Question was called on Mr. Bark’s substitute motion. The motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen explained the definition of knowingly employ an unauthorized alien.
Mr. Laird moved
that the Committee adopt the language presented by
Mr. Guillen. The motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen explained the definition of license.
Mr. Laird explained that Ms. Strunk perceived the current definition as too broad since it includes articles of incorporation, certificates of partnership, etc., but should only include licenses to do business.
Mr. Bark reminded the Members that the goal is to make sure an initiative is not placed on the ballot, which polling results he has seen indicate would probably pass. Supporters are gathering signatures, so if the bill appears to be weakened by the Legislature, the initiative will move forward. None of the recommended changes are in the initiative.
Mr. Laird submitted that the Members should do what they believe is right rather than letting a potential initiative affect their vote.
Mr. Bark asked the Members to keep in mind that an initiative is an unchangeable law. The language regarding the independent contractor and complaint process are not in the initiative.
Mr. Rios added that the initiative referred to may not be the only one on the ballot, and what determines that is what takes place this Legislative Session. He suggested basing approval of the recommendations on feedback from colleagues, clients, parents and friends, and see how it plays out.
Chairman Weiers pointed out that the huge debt of the state is largely created by the initiative process.
Mr. Laird moved that the Committee adopt the recommended changes to the definition of license as explained by Mr. Guillen. The motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen explained proposed language regarding the complaint process.
Mr. Quinn remarked that he is aware of one bill to address the complaint process.
Chairman Weiers indicated that the bill relating to citing of the federal regulation was heard in Committee, passed Rules and will probably be heard on the Floor next week. He anticipates it will be almost uncontested. The intent was to get the bill out because it was so readily available and easy. That is one bill down and more to go.
Mr. Quinn asked if a bill requires all 15 counties to use a written form.
Chairman Weiers stated that something standardized is needed, so he believes an entity will ultimately be charged with developing a complaint form to be adopted statewide.
Mr. Sanders submitted that this section is important with all the rhetoric about this being a racial issue. It goes a long way in saying it is not racial; a person is either breaking the law or not. It is also important to have the language relating to false or frivolous complaints, making it a Class 1 misdemeanor.
Mr. Laird moved that the Committee adopt the language regarding the complaint process for recommendation to the Legislature. The motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen explained proposed language regarding standard of proof.
Mr. Laird moved that the Committee adopt the change read by Mr. Guillen. The motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen explained proposed language relating to multiple location license suspensions.
Mr. Laird moved
that the Committee adopt the changes set forth in
Subsection (c) regarding revocation of single versus multiple locations. The
motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen reviewed proposed language relating to E-Verify, federal I-9 laws and creation of a non-rebuttal presumption for employers.
Mr. Laird moved
that the Committee adopt the recommendations to provide a “safe harbor” as
explained by Mr. Guillen. The motion carried (with
Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen explained a correction to the Federal Code.
Mr. Laird moved that the Committee recommend the change to the Legislature. The motion carried (with Mr. Cook abstaining).
Mr. Guillen advised Mr. Rios that the Final Report will be made available to the public after final approval by the Committee.
Chairman Weiers said the additions discussed will be added to the Final Report. He added that he appreciates everyone’s time and effort. The Ad Hoc Committee recommendations will provide a starting point for legislators. One item to consider is how this interacts with the initiative process. Initiatives placed on the ballot with the best intentions sometimes do not have the best results, which has happened over and over again. If an initiative is successful, there will be no more changes by the Legislature because it will be final.
Without objection, the meeting adjourned at 10:40 a.m.
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Linda Taylor, Committee Secretary
January 25, 2008
(Original minutes, attachments and audio on file in the Chief Clerk’s Office: video archives available at http://www.azleg.gov/).
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AD HOC COMMITTEE ON BUSINESS OWNERS
AND WORK SITE ENFORCEMENT
2
January 24, 2008
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